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Post by KC Royals Nation on Dec 11, 2007 15:38:34 GMT -6
^^^Guts! Guts, my friend!
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Post by skillset on Dec 11, 2007 15:46:47 GMT -6
Yes I'm sure my karma points will be down to -5 by this time tomorrow, but I speak the truth. He inherited stars who were aquired through means he did not believe in, (Chavez was a HS pick and Tejada was a Latin signee). He makes great trades but their "system" is mighty flawed.
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Post by mtroyals on Dec 11, 2007 16:15:17 GMT -6
Byrnes. I looked and Mozeliak was on the first page when I drafted. I guess I was getting ahead of myself, but behind you guys. Oops.
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Post by KC Royals Nation on Dec 11, 2007 16:16:37 GMT -6
I would say their general system of acquiring one-year players (Thomas, Bradley) and OBP-players gives them an advantage among other similar-talented teams, but they won't win without actual impact players. Seven to nine Chuck Knoblauchs aren't likely to produce at a capable level, and they probably advanced to the playoffs mostly because of Zito, Hudson, and Mulder.
I believe the "Moneyball" system works, but what ultimately leads a team to the playoffs is difference-making talent and pitching. They don't have much of either (no impact bat and only above-average pitching). Most of their talent the last decade (Giambi, Tejada, Zito, Hudson, etc.) was traded for or acquired before Beane took the helm. So I understand your point, and as you mentioned, I believe Beane is a brilliant trade-smith. It will be interesting to see who they develop over the next 2-3 years.
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Post by KC Royals Nation on Dec 11, 2007 16:17:13 GMT -6
Byrnes. I looked and Mozeliak was on the first page when I drafted. I guess I was getting ahead of myself, but behind you guys. Oops. Sorry. I didn't update the first page until about an hour ago. |
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Post by ror1fan on Dec 12, 2007 8:50:26 GMT -6
I agree with Skill~dawg Billy Beane
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Post by mtroyals on Dec 12, 2007 10:14:20 GMT -6
Does anyone have a good reason why I've defended Andrew Friedman but not Billy Beane?
From what I've read, Skillset, only Mulder was highly coveted.
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Post by skillset on Dec 12, 2007 12:55:19 GMT -6
Zito was drafted out of USC with the 9th pick overall (when we took Kyle Snyder at #7  ). He was a tall, lefthanded pitcher who had a huge curve, all teams love to find guys like that even if they only think they will become #3 starters. Hudson was also a first round pick that was selected later in the round due to the fact that he was a short (6'1") RHP. He was a 1st team All-America who tied for the NCAA lead in wins, 3rd in SO and was also 9th in RBI as an outfielder. So Hudson was also a big time talent selected early in the draft by the GM before Beane. The famed "Moneyball draft" of 2002 when Beane was laughing at the baseball world due to his genius, he took Nick Swisher OF at #16 (Cole Hamels went at #17), Joseph Blanton RHP at #24 (Matt Cain went at #25), John McCurdy SS at #26 (Sergio Santos SS #27), Ben Fritz RHP at #30 (Greg Miller LHP went at #31), Jeremy Brown C at #35 (Chadd Blasko RHP went at #36), and finally selected Mark Teahen 3B at #39 overall (Mark Schramek 3B went at #40). Only Mark Teahen has outplayed the player select right after Beane's pick. I do give Beane credit for recently changing his drafting approach. He is now taking some HS talent instead of trying to find stars out of college players only. At best Beane is the Carl Peterson of baseball. He will keep you competitive year in and year out but he will never win the big one. |
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Post by skillset on Dec 12, 2007 13:59:27 GMT -6
Round Update:
Melvin - 1 vote
Byrnes - 1 vote
Beane - 2 votes
Billy Beane is on the verge of elimination. We need more votes!
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Post by mtroyals on Dec 12, 2007 16:29:32 GMT -6
The reason he changed his draft philosophy is to go against the market. More and more teams were taking college players. And he needed the college players when he was taking them because he needed players that would reach the MLB quickly. The farm system was in ruins due to graduation. He's been rebuilding it.
And Tim Hudson was a sixth round pick (6/11). He developed a new pitch in the minors to become TIM HUDSON. Barry Zito is only 6'4, which is tall for the average American, but far from unusual for an MLB pitcher. And from what I've read/heard, Zito was considered an overdraft at 1/9.
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Post by KC Royals Nation on Dec 13, 2007 23:27:50 GMT -6
I can't change my vote to Beane. Folks, let's get some votes in.
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Post by KC Royals Nation on Dec 14, 2007 18:03:09 GMT -6
Change my vote. Billy Beane....walk the plank!
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Post by KC Royals Nation on Dec 14, 2007 18:03:26 GMT -6
Now, Doug Melvin.
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Post by mtroyals on Dec 14, 2007 19:57:15 GMT -6
Pat Gillick
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Post by KC Royals Nation on Dec 14, 2007 19:59:11 GMT -6
^^^Yeah, what in the world is Gillick still doing on the list? Haha...
I would still vote for $25MM bullpen-man Doug Melvin over Gillick, though.
Seriously....Gagne, Vizcaino, Torres, Mota....does he need to spend that much cash on aging, declining relief pitching? They have, like, ten viable candidates for the bullpen now. And beyond Sheets, their starting pitching still sucks.
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